17. Drifting Between Liminal Communities with Rev. Jeff Grant

Meet Rev. Jeff Grant. Once a drifter. Now a traveller. 

One who through suffering, pain and wreckage discovered a community. Hiding in the shadows. Under the abject shame of rejection. A community providing acceptance and belonging to fellow travellers.

Rev. Jeff is an ordained minister serving the white-collar justice community. His position holds a special reverence. His divinity – granted by the seminary – and protected by the state. Enables him to provide confidential counsel to those in need of crisis support. A crucial nexus for travellers that have just entered a liminal state.

Jeff’s own story is a rise, fall and rebirth of biblical proportions. 

Once a big-time real-estate lawyer. Owner of his own firm and a restaurateur. His meritocratic rise was buckled by an addiction to prescription opioids.

An addiction that prompted poor judgement. As his firms’ cashflow faltered and personal debts mounted. Ethical boundaries became blurred. Disbarred for reappropriating client funds. And eventually jailed for fraudulently claiming 9/11 disaster relief funding. 

The richness of his big-baller lifestyle soon disappeared. And through the ashes of devastation, a richness of spirit emerged…

I met Jeff through a mutual friend and old friend of the podcast; Craig Stanland. Craig was in fact one of the first travellers to have sought Jeff’s counsel. 

This is a conversation that drifts between two disparate liminal communities. The white-collar justice community and subjects of a diaspora. 

You may wonder, how do you draw a commonality between these two very distinct groups? The root cause of shifting liminal states is largely incomparable. However, acceptance, belonging and accountability are all very relatable. 

Whilst Jeff share’s his experiences within the white-collar justice community. I share my experiences of being a child of the Empire. And how our coerced liminal experiences impacted us, shaped our value systems and carved out routes of accountability.

This conversation took place on Easter Monday. Receiving blessings from an ordained Christian minister – regardless of my religious affiliation – was a real gift. 

Jeff is warmly spoken. His charisma is alluring. And his presences creates a safe space to express our inner spirit. That is Jeff’s gift.

A gift he doesn’t exercise through preaching. But by shepherding those seeking his counsel with the empowerment to realise this gift for themselves. 

A few weeks following the recording of this episode. The Supreme Court of New York reinstated Jeff’s license to practice law. Travellers seeking his counsel are now able to be served in greater ways. 

Blessed to welcome the first master of divinity and now practising attorney as a new friend of the podcast.

  • M.S. Batory


Jeff Grant: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube | Email
Newsletter: Jeff Grant on Medium
Newsletter: White Collar Week on Substack
The Guardian: Three men arrested amid inquiry into £6m Covid loan fraud
Forbes: Starting A Discussion On White Collar Crime And Recovery
Forbes: A New Class Of White-Collar Victims: The Family
Insider: This is what it’s like when the 1% go to jail, according to a couple that ministers to their families
Very Well Mind: The 12 Steps of Recovery Programs
BBC News: Bounce back loans: Hunting down the Covid loan fraudsters
Financial Times: Bankruptcy, jail, ruined lives: inside the Post Office scandal
Business Standard: Many Indian-origin post office managers hit by stealing scandal in UK
Entreprenur Europe: I Went to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud: 7 Things to Know When Taking COVID-19 Relief Money
Connected to India: Indian-origin UK postmasters awarded settlement after winning post office stealing scandal case
Prisonist: Thinking About PPP Fraud? Hannah Smolinski Interviews Jeff Grant
Website: Justice For Subpostmasters Alliance (JFSA)
Book: Without Buddha I Could Not be a Christian
Book: Religious Perspectives on Business Ethics: An Anthology
Book: Orange Is the New Black
Book: Blank Canvas: How I Reinvented My Life after Prison
Netflix: Orange is The New Black
Netflix: Jeong: A Practical Theology of Postcolonial Interfaith Relations


Episode #16: Rejecting The Patriarchy With Vanessa Osage
Episode #15: The Invalidation of Experience with Candice Mama
Episode #10: Correcting Reality with Craig Stanland


The best way to support the podcast is to share this episode and have this conversation.

I also have an affiliate programme with organisations that I either work closely with or I’m aligned to their mission. For a complete list of my partners, affiliates and even any discount codes, please visit my partners page at bobbyjagdev.com/partners


Visit me at: bobbyjagdev.com

Follow me on social media: LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram


Sign up to my mailing list and receive detailed show notes, the latest episodes and new articles direct to your inbox.


Thanks so much for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and rate and review on your favourite podcasting platform.